Schedule for the Upcoming October 24 meeting on “Is the Natural World Good or Bad?”

Christian Scientific Society Seminar: “Is the Natural World Good or Evil?”

To register for the meeting, go to this page.

October 24, 2020, Schedule (all times Eastern US time)


10:00 AM Jon Garvey, “Unfallen creation: the foundation for a biblical theology of nature”

Abstract: The thesis of God’s Good Earth is that what is often called the “traditional view” of a natural creation that fell because of human sin is neither well-supported by Scripture, nor was it ever a dominant Christian assumption until around the time of the Reformation. Leading Jewish, Patristic and mediaeval theologians often maintained the view that the natural world remains “very good,” as God formed it, and therefore they did not even have a concept of “natural evil.” Furthermore, the rather pessimistic view of nature’s goodness expressed by Charles Darwin and his scientific successors can be seen in terms of their inheriting the newer “cosmic fall” Christian view whilst secularizing it, assuming natural evil and explaining it through indifferent physical forces rather than human sin. Recovering the earlier view of the non-human creation as God’s obedient instrument for governing his world opens the way to considering a theology of nature more consistent with biblical teaching on God’s sovereignty and providence.

Bio: Born in Guildford, England, Jon Garvey studied Medicine at Pembroke College, Cambridge University, and theology at the University of Gloucester. Since 2011 his blog, The Hump of the Camel, has explored the theology of creation, attracting an extensive readership across the world, and in January 2019 Cascade published his first book, God’s Good Earth: the Case for an Unfallen Creation, followed in 2020 by The Generations of Heaven and Earth: Adam, the Ancient World and Biblical Theology. Jon lives in southwest England, is married with three adult children and five granddaughters, is a Baptist elder, and plays guitar and saxophone semi-professionally when plagues permit.

10:50 AM Stuart Burgess, “Defining ‘good design’ and ‘bad design’ with a case study of the recurrent laryngeal nerve”

Abstract: Various examples of claimed ‘bad design’ in nature have been given including the recurrent laryngeal nerve, panda’s thumb, human eye and human throat. However, the bad design argument is often based on the false assumption that sub-systems have just one function to perform. In reality, the optimal design of sub-systems involve meeting not just a main function but also several secondary functions and constraints. When the complete set of design requirements are considered, the best design can be quite different to what one would have assumed when considering just the main function. The claims about bad design also often involve false assumptions about how designers make choices. The presentation will define the difference between good and bad design. It will also argue that the homology we observe in nature is what would be predicted based on engineering design principles. A case study of the recurrent laryngeal nerve is used to illustrate the arguments.

Bio: Stuart Burgess is Professor of Engineering Design at Bristol University, UK, where he served three times as Chairman of the Department of Mechanical Engineering with 700 students. He is currently external examiner at Cambridge University, UK. He has published over 170 research papers on the science of design in engineering and biology. He has received several national and international awards for design including: the Turners Gold Medal for spacecraft design; Wessex Scientific Medal for bio-inspired design; Mollins Design Prize for machine design (presented by British Minister of State for Trade and Industry); and the 2019 IMechE Clayton Prize for the biggest contribution to mechanical engineering science in the UK. He led the design of the bicycle transmission for the British Cycling Team in the 2016 Rio Olympics that helped lead to six gold medals in that event.

11:40 BREAK


12:30 PM Fazale Rana, “Perfect Imperfections”

Abstract: Biochemical systems have the undisputable appearance of design. The question at the center of the intelligent design/creation/evolution controversy relates to the source of the design. Is it the handiwork of a Creator? Or, is it the product of unguided, evolutionary processes? Is the design authentic? Or, is it only apparent? Many biologists maintain that life’s origin, design and diversity are best explained as the outworking of evolutionary processes. As evidence for this view, they often point to so-called bad designs in biology. Why would an all-powerful, all-knowing and all-good Creator produce a world characterized by imperfections? In this talk, I explore the typical responses offered by Christian theists to the challenge from dysteleology and briefly discuss the strengths and weaknesses of these approaches. In turn, I present a framework that provides the means to interpret “bad” designs from a creation model/intelligent design perspective and illustrate this framework using select examples of often cited imperfections in biochemical systems, including the enzyme Rubisco, futile cycles in metabolism and the inefficiency of protein synthesis.

Bio: Fazale “Fuz” Rana serves as vice president of research and apologetics at Reasons to Believe, an organization dedicated to demonstrating the compatibility of science and Christianity. He earned a Ph.D. in chemistry with an emphasis in biochemistry at Ohio University and conducted postdoctoral research of cell membranes at the Universities of Virginia and Georgia. He spent seven years as a senior scientist at Procter & Gamble and has coauthored articles published in several peer-reviewed journals. Today, Fuz is author of multiple books, including Humans 2.0, and speaks on evidence for creation from biochemistry, genetics, and human origins.

1:20 PM Scott A. Minnich, “Does the evolution of Yersinia pestis (plague) virulence provide insights into theodicy?”

Abstract: Darwin had a problem reconciling natural design with a benevolent Creator and he used the parasitic ova-positing wasps (Ichneumonidae) and their caterpillar victims as an example. Yersinia pestis, the etiologic agent of bubonic plague, poses an even greater problem in the arena of ‘natural evil’. It is the most virulent bacterial pathogen for man and animals. Untreated, mortality rates can reach as high as 80%. There have been three plague pandemics in recorded history: The Justinian pandemic of the 6th Century; The Black Death of the 14th century; and the recent pandemic of the 19th-20th century. Combined, these pandemics have killed an estimated 300 million people. What makes this bacterium so deadly? Genomic studies show Y. pestis evolved relatively recently (~6,000 years) from its progenitor, Y. pseudotuberculosis, a self-limiting human pathogen with negligent mortality rates. This idea has been further strengthened by genomic reconstructions of Y. pestis from DNA isolated from Bronze Age and Neolithic human skeletons. Evolution to ‘high pathogenicity’ involved the acquisition of suites of genes by lateral gene transfer, and surprisingly, as we and others have shown, involves genetic loss. Hence, it can be argued that the ‘aboriginal’ design of the plague organism was avirulent. This scenario also applies to Darwin’s example of the Ichneumonidae.

Bio: Scott A. Minnich received his BS in Bacteriology and Public Health from Washington State University (1975), a MS in Microbiology at the University of Idaho (1977) and a Ph.D. in Microbiology at Iowa State University (1980). He pursued postdoctoral studies in molecular biology and microbial genetics at Purdue and Princeton before joining the faculty at University of Idaho in 1989. Minnich’s research is centered on the molecular pathogenesis of Gram-negative bacteria. These efforts are focused on host-parasite interactions, evolution of virulence, and novel strategies for vaccine production. Models employed for this work include Y. pestis, Y. enterocolitica, and E. coli O157:H7. From October 2003 to May 2004, he served as a subject matter expert with the Chemical Biological Intelligence Support Team (CBIST) Detachment 3 with the Iraq Survey Group headquartered in Baghdad.

2:10 PM David Snoke, “Considering the Problem of Evil”

Abstract: In this talk I will consider the “problem of evil” as it is often used as a challenge to Christianity. In the first half of my talk, I will argue that while there is “mystery” involved in our thinking about this question, there is no self-contradiction or violation of logic in the traditional Christian view of good and evil. In the second part of my talk, I will summarize some of the arguments of my book, A Biblical Case for an Old Earth (Baker, 2006), that many of the things we think of as “natural evil,” such as animal death, carnivores, and parasites, are not “evil” at all in the biblical world view. Finally, I will discuss what is meant by the “curse” and the “groaning” of the natural world in the Bible.

Bio: David Snoke is professor of physics at the University of Pittsburgh. He received his bachelor’s degree in physics from Cornell University and his Ph.D. in physics from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and did postdoctoral studies as an Alexander von Humboldt Fellow at the Max Planck Institute for Condensed Matter Physics in Stuttgart, Germany. He heads an experimental optical spectroscopy lab funded that focuses on novel quantum mechanical effects in optics. He has authored over 160 scientific papers and has published five scientific books, including four with Cambridge University Press. In 2006 he was named a Fellow of the American Physical Society “for his pioneering work on the experimental and theoretical understanding of dynamical optical processes in semiconductor systems.” He has long written and spoken on the integration of Christianity and science at numerous universities and meetings.

3:00 PM Panel discussion of the speakers

Moderated by Mark Tabladillo

Bio: Mark Tabladillo is an apologist in Atlanta GA, and is a presenter and Atlanta chapter officer with Reasons to Believe. Mark has also been a presenter for the Perspectives on the World Christian Movement class. Mark has a professional career in data science, and his professional work has taken him to Europe, Asia and Africa. He has taught with Georgia Institute of Technology, Brenau University and the University of Phoenix.

3 responses to “Schedule for the Upcoming October 24 meeting on “Is the Natural World Good or Bad?””

  1. Olufemi Oluniyi Avatar
    Olufemi Oluniyi

    Will it be possible to get a transcript of the sessions? I do not have the gadgets to participate virtually.
    Rev Olufemi Oluniyi, PhD

  2. Scott Minnich Avatar
    Scott Minnich

    Are the talks from Natural Evil available on line?

  3. David Snoke

    All the videos are available at Vimeo.
    There is a free login code available to members of the CSS at
    You need to be logged in on your account to get the code.

    Recordings of past meetings are also available at the same vimeo site.

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